History of Greek Cuisine, Just a topic on Greek Foods Options

[biancoverde]

I thought Id create this topic after Ilitbas gave me the idea, following a few members discussions on Baklava - some beleived it was from Greek origin, the rest of the world feels its from Assyrian or Turkish.

So lets talk Greek Food ..... Articles on food history etc have a good place in this thread, as well as opinions, tastes and discussing origins of Greek Cuisine from Ancient up till today....

With Easter coming up....I think its a good time to discuss Easter dishes first....

anybody know the stories behind Mageiritsa and Kokoretsi?
I beleive Kokoretsi is from Aromanian word, but isnt it an old Christian tradition to eat the innards of the lamb ?

Also magiritsa is that eaten in other Balkan countries? Or is that just the -itsa ending fooling me?


Maybe Ilitbas and his amazing dictionaries have some ideas...

[spaz7]

i know some ppl dont find wikipedia reliable

but here is a list of greek foods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Greek_cuisine


anyways mmmmmmmm magiritsa..wish dad could make it more than once a yr..i love it

the zoomi the liver (favourite meat for me along with kota)

anyways some foods come from middle east/turkey or w.e..they showed us their food but we perfected it!!

[biancoverde]

i know some ppl dont find wikipedia reliable

but here is a list of greek foods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Greek_cuisine
anyways mmmmmmmm magiritsa..wish dad could make it more than once a yr..i love it

the zoomi the liver (favourite meat for me along with kota)

anyways some foods come from middle east/turkey or w.e..they showed us their food but we perfected it!!

some foods from the Balkan neighbors, and Italy and even Romans, and even Saloniki Jews (loukoumades)

but yeah, funny thing is Greece actually does make their loaned dishes much better.... Greek baklava is easily better than the Turkish one...they also have loukoumades in Turkey....theyre awful there.

but back to the HISTORY and origins......Mageiritsa? Kokoretsi ?

[pao2gre]

Baklava in todays form is a greek invention as its Greeks who made filo pastry....however the concept of baklava was taken from Assyrians.....

[RED SHERIFF]

some foods from the Balkan neighbors, and Italy and even Romans, and even Saloniki Jews (loukoumades)

but yeah, funny thing is Greece actually does make their loaned dishes much better.... Greek baklava is easily better than the Turkish one...they also have loukoumades in Turkey....theyre awful there.

but back to the HISTORY and origins......Mageiritsa? Kokoretsi ?

I had a very bad tasting spaghetti bolognaise in Santorini and I wasnt a fan of the pizza in Athens.
So on those occassions the Greeks certainly butcheredthe Italian food

[iltibas]

Concerning baklava (PArt of what I posted a5t the Fener thread)



1) The origin of baklava is in doubt
2) A reasonable, as far as I can tell, and informative article appears in baklavo-wiki-pedia
3) The dominant theory concerning Baklava was written some years back by a fellow called Perry and a summary of his claim appears in an article published in 2006 (baklavo_reporter) when Cyprus laid claim to the Baklava and the Turks protested.

Here is the Perry theory (from the article referenced above) in a nutshell:

Charles Perry, journalist from the Los Angeles Times and culinary expert, ...... in an article, within a volume of Culinary Culture of the Middle East, published by the prestigious School of African and Oriental Studies in London, .... attempted to put an end to the age old polemic. He does it by attacking the foundations of the Greek claim to ownership to the sweet. In a book by the historian Speros Vryonis, “The Decline of Medienal Hellenism in Asia Minor“, he sustains that Baklava couldn’t be anything other than the Byzantium Kopte or Koptoplakous, this constitutes the principle reference point for supporters of the Greek origin of the sweet. Perry puts the interpretation made by Vryonis of two historical sources to support his theory under discussion. The first of these sources is from a text written in the Second Century AD; in which reference is made to a sweet made from layers and filled with nuts and honey. According to Perry, Vryonis overlooks the fact that these layers could not be made with delicate layers of pastry but with layers of ground sesame. Citing also the second source, a book by Professor Koukoules, Vyronis, according to Perry commits the same error, he fails to precisely identify explicitly what the layers of pastry are made from.
As stated by Perry the presence of fine layers of pastry could be the unconditional proof of the Turkish paternity of the sweet. The preparation of fine layers of pastry is in fact a characteristic of the Turkish nomadic population, who weren’t able to cook the pastry in a conventional oven and were constricted to cook the layers on a flat, slightly convex, metal plate. The use of fine leaves, yufka or katmer in Turkish, other than being central in the preparation of sweet and savoury Turkish food, can also be found throughout the Turkish Diaspora, from Uzbekistan to Azerbaijan, between the stony Russian Steppes and the Turkish figures of the Chinese Sinkiang. The Baklava that we have the pleasure in tasting today, could be, according to Perry, the fruit of the crossing of the traditions of Yufka with the best techniques and the introduction of new ingredients brought by the Imperial kitchens of the Ottoman palaces.

[pao2gre]

But doesnt that dismiss Assyrian claims all together LOL even though they had ground ntus with honey lol....

And Greeks created filo pastry? lol

[biganj]

Can someone explain to americans that GYROS is not greek food and that we do not eat pita bread

[biancoverde]

I had a very bad tasting spaghetti bolognaise in Santorini and I wasnt a fan of the pizza in Athens.
So on those occassions the Greeks certainly butcheredthe Italian food

well then you have yet to try a good greek pastitsio (pasticcio), stifado (stufatto) or makaronia me kima (a variant of Bolognese)... in South and Western Greece is where these foods are best...and they are all great!


as for Gyros and Pita....yes they are Greek foods bgnj...fast food is part of cuisine and culture too..the Gyros was decended from the Turkish doner, but today its its own unique food, style and belongs uniquley to Greece and has fit and thrived in modern Greek culture, so yes the GYRO is ours....the DONER (different) is Turkish.....the only thing we share with Doner is the vertical roasting....the bread, toppings, sauces, style, and place and ways its eaten and served are different.

As for pita, Greeks eat it with fast food...in greek american restaurants they serve pita as bread on the table.....its a clear sign youve gone to a bad restaurant..

This post has been edited by drakos13: Apr 8 2008, 12:04 PM

[Adrastos]

kontosouvli

[spaz7]

pastitchio kicks ass
had some a few days ago

but the best grk food out there in my opinion is SPANIAKOPITA

i can eat this everyday for the rest of my life and not get sick of it
i just love spinach

This post has been edited by spaz7: Apr 8 2008, 11:39 AM

[Guest_porman_*]

Here's something I could live on for the rest of my life.

1. Giouvarlakia
2. Faki
3. Gemistes
4. Pastitsio
5. Gyro (Thessaloniki style, not that abomination from Athens)

[biancoverde]

5. Gyro (Thessaloniki style, not that abomination from Athens)

Athens is the best and the original. Theres some in Saloniki that arent bad, but nothing compares to the Athenian. Gyros is not as popular up North I noticed and gererally sucks.... and besides theres not even that much difference.
Ketchup/Mustard with tzatziki on a Gyro doesnt go, doesnt fit. Its two separate tastes in additions to the rest - not all mixing into one and its just wierd and tastes cheap and gross...

Where is the best gyros in Saloniki for you?


also guys come on this is a forum on food history...not favourites

[RED SHERIFF]

slightly off topic.
As mentioned above I had a pizza in Athens and I wasnt impressed.

Are the pizzas in Greece more like the genuine Italian pizzas. or more like the American/Australian variety

[biancoverde]

slightly off topic.
As mentioned above I had a pizza in Athens and I wasnt impressed.

Are the pizzas in Greece more like the genuine Italian pizzas. or more like the American/Australian variety

niether...

dont know about Australian though....Pizza in Greece is a bit thicker, and often they use gouda (yech) and not mozzarella.......its gross... definitly different from American and Italian pizza.

[PPFRESH]

Yeah Greek pizza is pretty terrible save for the Montreal fare--which has been adopted

Anyway, I am sure it has been mentioned but Greece invented the Pizza along with much of what is considered Italian fare.

GREAT TOPIC BTW!

This post has been edited by PanaPhilHellene: Apr 11 2008, 11:33 AM

[AEK Chicago]

slightly off topic.
As mentioned above I had a pizza in Athens and I wasnt impressed.

Are the pizzas in Greece more like the genuine Italian pizzas. or more like the American/Australian variety

Greek pizza is a cross between the American and Italian styles.

I found Greek pizza to be God awful, although the rest of the food in Greece is outstanding. Gouda on pizza doesn't impress me. I think Pizza Hut when I eat Greek pizza.

btw, for any Chicagoans out there, the most authentic Neapolitan style pizza you'll find anywhere outside of Naples is at a place called Spacca Napoli on Ravenswood one block north of Montrose. OUTSTANDING!

Their oven cooks the pies at a temperature of 1200 degrees Farenheit. The pizza takes no more than a minute and a half to cook. I had a buffalo mozzarella and basil pie that was delicious the other day.

[biancoverde]

Yeah Greek pizza is pretty terrible save for the Montreal fare--which has been adopted

Anyway, I am sure it has been mentioned but Greece invented the Pizza along with much of what is considered Italian fare.

GREAT TOPIC BTW!

Pizza in Greece definitly think Pizza Hut lol PanaPhilHellene puts it well...its not worth your time...Though I dont see anything in Greek pizza resembling italian style, except that its common to put ham on pizza as a meat topping like in Italy..

Id say its safe to say that pizza has very old origins, afterall its so ridiculously simple in its ingredients...
the original pizza is called the "marinara" and is just bread, tomatoes, oil, garlic, oregano, basil...its one of the most deliscious things youll ever eat too....

but Greece did not invent the pizza...not as we know it today, as there is no mozzarella in Greece, and also tomatoes didnt come to Greece till after the new world...


this from Wiki, backed up by an American Tufts Universty Lexicon:

The Ancient Greeks, for example, had a flat bread called plakous (πλακούς, gen. πλακούντος - plakountos)[1] which was flavoured with various toppings like herbs, onion and garlic

My question is : what happened to that plakous, that sounds deliscious



As for Etymology of "Pizza" from Wiki :

One of the POSSIBLE explanations is

* 7. It derives from the Ancient Greek word πίσσα (pissa, Attic πίττα, pitta), "pitch" [23][24], or ptea, "bran", (pιtνtιs, "bran bread").[25]

IMO is actually the most likley...Southern Italy had a lot of Greeks, and Greek words were brought to Italy and still exist in there dialects today. Southerners were even called sometimes by nickname Grechi (Greeks) up to middle ages...


so its not proven it has a greek origin, although its likley. But pizza is something invented by the peoples of southern italy and naples, and just because they mixed with Greeks doesnt mean that its ours...otherwise, wed have had a pizza equivalent very common in greece dont you think???


Although......could this be related to the pizza, or even the plakous?

Ladenia - a pie with a lot of olive oil, onions, tomatoes, and oregano and more oil....much like a pizza, but this recipe is native of the island of Kimolos...not found in mainland Greece really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZzeXdvr0p8

This post has been edited by drakos13: Apr 11 2008, 01:17 PM

[Paokaras]

I remember going to a Gyro Stand/Restaurant and their GYROS were amazing!!!... I believe it was called something like Gyro tou Aristoteli. Not exactly sure if thats the name but I am 100% it had Aristoteli in the name.

[RED DEVIL]

I can not live withought my greek cuisine greek food greek fast food!!!!

We are blessed with the best cuisine in the entire planet/world and i couldnt give two shits if i couldnt eat nothing else ever in my life.

Long live my moussakades, pastitsia, gemista, arnaki, kotopoulo, pikilies (kalamari,saganaki,octopodaki,xoriatiki salata ect..)

Glory to our keftedes,loukanika, souvlakia,gyro pites "vromika"and any other fast food in the menu lol..,

Mou trexoun ta salia thinking of my mothers kourabiedes,melamakarona, our famous tiropites,baklavades,kadaifia, spanakopites ect..

Am i the only one that can finish a bowl of SPANAKOPITES no problem and still be hungry?

Am i the only one that can eat every day a gyro pita and never ever get sick of the food?

GREEK CUISINE RULES even if we took certain things we have perfected them because we are Greeks.