Where to go in Athens... Options

[RED SHERIFF]

xenofon


you are right about the area around KTEL...

BUT even with the current economic crisis...its unfair to call Greece "a poor country"....Poor countries are third world countries...Greece is far from that...


the reason why I mentioned Italian cities is that I have been to many of their neighborhoods...they are very similar to Athens... a lot of the negativity we see in Athens is actually more a European thing than just an Athens thing..

overcrowded cities have a certain feel to them...

I feel athens does lack that X factor appeal of other major European cities.....

BUT...

The suburban feel of other cities can be equally as dirty (if not worse) and very overcrowded... Athens seemed peaceful to me compared to Rome and Naples (suburbs)...

If one was to spend 3 days in Romes historical centre you would be blown away with the marvellous history and architecture that no city could match....absolutely breath taking.... venture 10 minutes on the dirty stinky metro and hit the suburbs (inner suburbs)..its a totally different world..
and here lies the point....because Athens lacks the historical centre that other European cities have ..Centres inspired by the Renaissance period and medienal times as well as 19th century neo classical buildings.. people get easily fooled into believing that the rest of the city and suburbs are equally as exciting..

very very very few tourists especially young aussies would venture beyond the historical centres of european cities..

This post has been edited by RED SHERIFF: Mar 14 2011, 05:35 AM

[xenofon]

Ok now i'm not accusing you of this, but a lot of people in Australia, be it Greeks or 'sketo' Aussies have this superiority complex where they think everything is inferior to australia, and to be considered 'nice' it has to resemble Australia in some way.

Who are you to say that? First of all define 'nice'.

George, yes i know the australians and greek-australians you talk about, the ones who think they're superior and knock everything over there. I am not one of those, if I was I would never go back. In fact I am one of the few (maybe like sheriff) who argue against them. But it also works in reverse.....many who return there are unfairly stereotyped as the type of person you describe (e.g. the 'kangaroos')....they are often the ones who don't go back. So it goes both ways.

All I am saying is that as the country with the proud history that gave the world democracy, medicine, philosophy, etc, etc, we should be doing better. Simple things like people's attitudes, throwing rubbish out of cars like it's nothing, etc, need to change because we are better than that, but we are behind the rest of europe in this regard. Athens can and should be a better city.

By 'nice' I meant physically/visually, and I meant the suburbs not the tourist sites. And the famous athens smog, unless they've cleaned it up it was a fixture of the city in the past. And yes, per capita Australians are one of the biggest greenhouse polluters and that's nothing to be proud of, but the place itself is not polluted. I'm sure you remember. Not everything is perfect in Australia, I'll be the first to admit it.

And sheriff, I meant greece was a poor country by EU/US/Australian standards, not comparing to Africa and asia. This is reflected in things such as the state / modernity of our cities. I don't think I'm saying anything wrong am I?

Like you guys, I want greece to progress and be seen in a positive light, not to be the butt of jokes like it has been by other europeans and australians, because at the end of the day we are greeks, no matter where we live. But unless we accept what is not right with the place and what can be improved, this won't change.....and the only way to do that is to compare and learn from other places to get a true perspective on things. Most of the people who live in athens probably think it's ok because they don't know any better, they've never been abroad and it's not their fault. This discussion is not about boasting and putting down, it's about our perceptions of a place.

And George, is that walking tour your business, or are you a tour guide for them? Next time you have some smart arse aussies in the group, tell them to piss off

[RED SHERIFF]

xenofon..

the term poor country has a factual meaning? it doesn't have an "in context" or "compared to" meaning...

it would be like saying I am poor compared to Marinakis or Frank Lowy ..but I am not a poor person....because I am not as rich as they are...

And again Greece poor compared to EU? WHO Bulgaria? Portugal? Hungary? Latvia? Spain (24% unemployment)? Ireland? even Italy have huge debt and are struggling...


As far as the diaspora Greeks that go back and are not happy...I find the older I get that people are far more accepting and luckily many see things a bit more objectively...and are not stuck as they were in the 80s or 90s I do get a lot of positive stories about Athens from people our age group compared to years ago...And also compared to the younger or older groups...

Also you have the group that makes me sick.....the group that "travel" and get home sick because the miss the footy and bogan culture so criticize everything and everyone because nothing compares to being at the MCG? And judge a good holiday by how pissed they get....sadly for them there is no cure...and one should not bother??

[xenofon]

sheriff...

You don't know what I mean by poor? I think you do.

by poor I am comparing greece to the western EU countries like Germany, Netherlands, UK, France, Sweden, etc, the foundation countries of the EU, not the recent minor additions like eastern block Latvia and a rock called Malta. We have been there since 1980. Our GDP is 15th in europe, behind countries like Poland and turkey, and spain that you mention (1500 billion compared to our 300).

These countries have manufacturing and industry, greece has very little. Italy? They are a G8 country with massive industry.....we have a great donkey and fetta cheese industry. Without tourism greece would no doubt be stone dead. Does the fact that we were almost kicked out of the union tell you anything? Others carrying the can for greece all these years, the Germans wanting us out? Or was that a joke? That's what I mean by poor. Not ethiopia poor.

You need to see things objectively. Because you're greek you shouldn't make out that we are not so bad....the proof is in the pudding. The country is struggling, people are suffering, the cost of living is unsustainable. You try living on 700 euros a month and pay rent at the same time. That's what I mean by poor.

This is not bagging greece, it's stating facts. I can give more examples if you like. But dont take my word for it, turn on the greek news and see for yourself.

[Athens4]

You have to realise that the mentalities of the people in the countries where we have all moved to are different from Greeks. Greeks, for example, work to live. They do not live to work like the drones in Germany.

[RED SHERIFF]

xenofon

the GDP s you mention of Turkey and Poland have to be taken as per capita.....and per capita Poland and Turkey are way behind... and you would be surprised at the per capita of Spain and Italy...this is the way GDP is ranked and looked at it hence why Qatar is the richest country by GDP per capita.....

I don't think we were nearly kicked out of EU...that is an exaggeration.. i watch the news every day..i do post on another thread about the economic crisis quite regularly...

I think the topic is Athens.... The point I am trying to make is we shouldn't think that other Southern European suburbs in big cities are dripping in gold or riches...

like I said I have been to a few other cities...and what I saw was not the " espresso sipping Ferrari driving ,designer label wearing dude " sitting on the corner of every block...it was a modest person in modest surroundings...nothing of the "dolce vita" that we are lead to believe...

the drab suburbs we see in Athens are a Southern european legacy and norm...


I said to myself that had i landed in Athens (bad suburbs) direct from the leafy Eastern suburbs from MELBOURNE and with a closed mind and negative attitude I probably would have been disappointed..

Luckily for me...I last went to Athens a few years ago via Rome,Milan,Naples by this time I had been "broken in" to the Southern European city life and always carried an open mind...and hence Athens did not really disappoint in that regard..

[xenofon]

That's fine sheriff, each to their own.

All i'm saying is we shouldn't see things through blue and white coloured glasses

[RED SHERIFF]

i am not...xenofon...i respect your position...

but we should clarify when stating fact as per GDP...That we use correct criteria....as this misuse of info is what breeds negative ideas...

its one thing to have a preference or a like or dislike. or differing opinions this is what makes this forum great.........BUT facts like GDP have to be used in proper context...

[biancoverde]

With comments in here like "i like athens for just a few days" and "i only like areas like glyfada" mean that you don't actually like athens at all (which is fine, just admit it). I think there is absolutely nothing greek about glyfada, it feels so fake. I personally love it for what it is, and the huge benefit to everyone living in polykatoikies is that the distances are all so c

Nothing Greek about Glyfada? What the hell do you know about Glyfada? Fake???? Why because you went to one street with the intensley snobby cafes saw some shops???? Its no different than other parts of commercialized Athens, its just in a nicer location with more space.

[GeorgeStilly]

Some good points have been made on both sides to be fair. I tend to get a bit over-defensive of athens at times, because it's very under-rated as a destination and often gets knocked by influential people like travel critics etc, who probably didn't even set a foot outside the limo whilst on their journey from the airport to the airport

and xenofan to answer your question, yes, the walking tour is my baby, i would hardly call it a business though Hopefully one day.

Nothing Greek about Glyfada? What the hell do you know about Glyfada? Fake???? Why because you went to one street with the intensley snobby cafes saw some shops???? Its no different than other parts of commercialized Athens, its just in a nicer location with more space.

Well I'm down there once a week, is that enough for you? What do you know that I don't?

KFC, Pizza Hut, McDonalds and Starbucks are all within spitting distance.

This post has been edited by GeorgeStilly: Mar 17 2011, 08:54 AM

[biancoverde]

So because there are foreign franchises, right next to each other, Glyfada is not Greek. And its all in one corner those chain restaurants, they don't make the place any less "Greek"--- what does that even mean? Does a place have to have souvlatzidika with cafes of old men to be "greek" for you? .

What do I know you don't about Glyfada? Probably, quite a lot, I grew up there, and I'm also there right now.

This post has been edited by biancoverde: Mar 17 2011, 09:13 AM

[GeorgeStilly]

So because there are foreign franchises, right next to each other, Glyfada is not Greek. And its all in one corner those chain restaurants, they don't make the place any less "Greek"--- what does that even mean? well you should know, you're arguing so strongly that it is.

Does a place have to have souvlatzidika with cafes of old men to be "greek" for you? .
It does help.

What do I know you don't about Glyfada? Probably, quite a lot, I grew up there, and I'm also there right now.

Great, lets meet for coffee tomorrow then

This post has been edited by GeorgeStilly: Mar 17 2011, 10:15 AM

[Kalavrios]

But there are some parts of Athens that are downright dirty, dusty and ugly. I didn't see this type of thing in other western European cities, not to this level at least.

Not true at all imo. I'm living in Athens atm and prefer it to the UK in almost everyway. I'll have to go back to the UK for uni but if I had the chance to stay here I would.

Omonia is very shitty, that is undeniable but there are immigrants everywhere. I get so bored of hearing Greeks moaning about things as if they are the only people in the world who have these issues. Immigration is a European problem. Parts of London are truly shocking and completely taken over. Same can be said for parts of most big cities in Europe. Even in Hamburg I saw tents full of immigrants underneath bridges.

As for feeling 'unsafe' as someone said, I walk through Omonia twice a week at night and have not once felt threatened. Infact I feel safer walking through there than I did in my town in England which only has around 150k people.

Beneath the grey haze, the blanket of pollution that permanently covers the city

Ask any Athenian whether they like living there. Nearly all will say no,

Do you live in the 80's ? This 'grey haze' is rare nowadays and only on the hottest days will it seem how it was.

And as for 'Ask any Athenian whether they like living there. Nearly all will say no' How do you know ? How many have you asked ? Stupid comment.

Greeks, for example, work to live. They do not live to work like the drones in Germany.

Spot on.

[xenofon]

Do you live in the 80's ? This 'grey haze' is rare nowadays and only on the hottest days will it seem how it was.

And as for 'Ask any Athenian whether they like living there. Nearly all will say no' How do you know ? How many have you asked ? Stupid comment.

Must be less cars now than in the 80's, or all vehicles are electric, or the population has shrunk.

Most people, including every taxi driver I've asked has said that. Those who say they like living there have probably never been anywhere else so don't know any better. And don't call me stupid.....stupid.

[Kalavrios]

I didn't call you stupid. To be fair..taxi drivers ?? With a job like that, will any taxi drivers like where they live ? Things are just set up for the negatives to jump out at them.

[PaoPsycho]

actually, almost everyone I speak to would much prefer staying in greece than living elsewhere

even friends from America who have moved here permanently would never go back

Also a friend who has travelled to 32 countries would never want to live anywhere but Greece

like Kalavrios said, most taxi drivers are miserable

[tantra129]

every time i get in a cab in greece , i turn my camcorder on.


YOU JUST NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE OR HEAR.


THE BEST entertainment.

[tantra129]

+++

Athens ROCKS SOLID.

Those who don;t like her, simply don't know her.