Greek Superleague Issues & Concerns, The State of the Greek Superleague Options

[Red legacy]

^^^^

For the same reason non-yankee fans are anti-yankee in the states...........They win the league all the time in professional baseball..........................

It's the same reason those people who support the NFL and don't support the New England Patriots hate the New England patriots. They are always in the playoffs and in the last 10 years have won the super bowl more than any other team has in a 10 year span....

I am one of those anti-yankee and anti-New England people, not because I think they are cheaters, but because they are the best teams. THey bring the best players in and always compete at the highest level. I want to see someone get to their level or better and dethrone them. Not because I think either powerhouse cheats, but because I don't want to see a dynasty run the league......... I'm sure if I was a fan of either team, I would love a dynasty, but that's how both sides of the coin work.

The marginal fan and neutral fan will generally choose to support an underdog instead of a powerhouse. People(neutrals) don't want to see the same team win a championship year after year. If you are insinuating that these neutral fans hate Olympiacos because "EVERYONE KNOWS WE FIX GAMES" then you need to rethink some things. THe average Greek in greece doesn't know jack about anything and is guided by propaganda left and right. This goes back to the problem Thryleon just posted a tirade about................... people passing the buck onto someone else so they can shift blame away from them instead of looking inward at their problems.

Professional sports leagues are not charities, teams don't win each year because it's "their turn to win" the best team wins. End of story. Olympiakos has had most consistently in Greece the best team..... the marginal fan and more neutral ones will of course begin to detest and support teams against Oly because they want to see someone else win. THat's how it works, not because they are some enlightened geniuses seeing Oly is the only team with some kind of shady history.

This post has been edited by Red legacy: Mar 27 2012, 02:22 PM

[RED SHERIFF]

Red Sheriff, why do you think a large majority of average and decent non-olumpiakos people are anti-olympiakos?

read thryleon post......thats why...

and please get off this high moral stand...."decent non-olympiakos people"

as if morality is determined by which team you support...

its the greek mentality.....everything is a conspiracy....like the economic crisis....

we are not broke..the germans have contrived it to steal our assets.....


we need as a culture to get out of this balkan/ottoman attitude...

the more i hear the more i see us as another fyrom.Serbia. Albania..

[Thryleon]

@thryleon i agree with what you have said about the clubs getting their houses in order.but what do you have to say about presidents like marinakis coming out and calling the league corrupt because vyntra won a dubious penalty against aris.
what do you have to say about the constant attack on refs fronm the opadikes newspapers and paragondes like theodoris,how can you have a decent league when the refs are constantly under attack literally sometimes ,and olympiakos is one of the worst culprits this year of crying foul about the refs.
you cannot run a fair league when the refs are under a constant barrage of attack ?
olympiakos is 1000 times guilty of trying to influence the refs thru the papers and theodoridis,and they have succeeded, all of this fuels hatred.
paos finances are in a shambles and the crowd violence was shocking,drop us down to b ethniki thats what we deserve,if it was kerkyra they would of been relegated all ready.
greek league =bitching,bitching,bitching,whining,complaining,crying thts all that seems to come out of the mouths of paragondes and players when things dont go their way.
to akousame kai afto apo to olympiakous oti itan ftaigmeno to protathlima na to pari o pao,pilavios was copping it big time in the media,you cannot run a league like that,its disgraceful behaviour and until the behaviour changes and attitudes change,nothing will change.sometimes the ref will make a bad call against us it happens in sport and take it like a man,not destroy the refs business and run his name through the mud.
how many refs were attacked by osfp this season because they gave "favourable" decisions to pao ?
the whole attitude must change of the way they run their clubs,of how the media report,how paragondes and presidents act .if this happens it will filter through to the fans ,but you cannot keep generating hatred and not expect violence to explode.
dont turn this into a pao v osfp he did this we did that ,adress the issues that happened and have happened in greece,i used osfp as an example because this year the attack they unleashed on the refs was unprecedented thats how i saw it anyway.
of course we have been guilty of similar behaviour in the past there are no cleanskins.

Really?
I post what I posted, and this is what you come up with? Shifting the blame once again to how Olympiakos attack the refs and it being unprecedented? We cannot take responsibility for the media, and what they print, but the people who LISTEN to the media can take responsibility to not listen to their bullshit. Whilst we are on the high horse once again potting someone else:

GET YOUR CLUB TO RELEASE ANOTHER DVD ABOUT THE REFS AND THEIR DECISIONS. Have we forgotten so soon about this? Malezani was the coach for this one I thought....

So, thats what you would do to move forward. Your club is pathetic and your supporters are the real sheep of Greek football where you guys have become so pikramenoi you cannot even make a logical argument without lining us up, painting us to be the devil incarnate whilst forgetting your own sins against Greek football.

My answer has always been, take Olympiakos, PAO, AEK, and PAOK out of the league, and dissolve them as clubs and watch history repeat itself with Larissa, Panionios and Aris because of the answers like the above and the culture of the Greek people still failing to make the necessary improvements. Whilst clubs like Asteras Tripolis are fielding a host of foreign players with 2 or 3 Greeks in the lineup, where is Greek football really heading?

You guys just want to be the dominant team in Greece and topple Olympiakos at all costs. It doesnt matter how it is achieved, and you think this is the biggest problem in Greek football. News Flash, there are bigger problems in greek football, but the media as a whole is just one of them. Why do we have 14 sports newspapers for a country of ten million people, and then you have the other papers for mainstream news as well. I see the news for one thing and thats propaganda. You believe them to be the stance of the club, and this is the end result. Fans complaining about complaining! I say, lets cut the bullshit and call a spade a spade. In the years we have not won titles, do you think that there was something we were unsatisfied about from a reffing perspective? Of course there was, yet according to you guys, these were the only Free and corrupt free years and most of your supporters believed it, that was the funny thing! A league all of a sudden was free of corruption because another team won the league. Every year since we started winning this is all we have heard. Corruption this, and blah blah blah, and shabby refs and blah blah blah, and then we are the ones corrupting everything?

Again, you are only upset that PAO are the bully's with no one to bully as there is a bigger bully in the school yard. The league will take care of itself, once everyone lifts their game. The refs too. Actually they should focus on getting well trained refs to ref games or training them better, but the same old same old will apply with refs and there will always be polarising decisions made, because no two refs are the same, and no two incidents in football are the same, unless its Greek football where the decision is correct, or the decision is corrupt!

[RED SHERIFF]

1) this thread would only have 4 posts if AEK and PAO were financially viable and had their sugar daddys and stadium.

2) people asking for osfp to be sanctioned and stripped etc....just need to have a look at our neighbors...Turkey,Italy,Portugal..


Fener was found guilty by UEFA but still competed this year in Turkish LEAGUE...Trabzonspor had huge clouds over their credibility yet were allowed to play in europe and no punishment.

In Italy Juve,Milan were "punished" they are now back at the top of serie A.

Porto were accused of many wrong doings - no punishment...

this is not meant to say look at others are just as bad....more to point out that even if one is "found guilty" of "corruption little happens and if it does in 1-2 years things go back to being the same??

also remember Fener,Trabzonspor,Juve,Milan,Porto all have sugar daddys.....ALL clubs need sugar daddys...PAO had their too..

the moral of the story then is...? how "clean" are Gala,Besiktas,Roma,Lazio,Benfica etc... in their leagues ...???

[Greekaus]

The moral of the story is that your boss is a crook but I wish he was my boss.

Olympiakos is not to blame for PAO and AEKs financial demise and public ridiculing. Then again, Olympiakos is no position to offer moral advise to others, ante sto thiaolo apo ekei. (I mean that as a general comment, not picking on anyone specifically )

Fucking Greek soccer fans, none of you have mirrors in your house apparently. Its ugly as sin what you see ,not beautiful. Narcisssitic bastards all of them.

[alexocfp]

read thryleon post......thats why...

its the greek mentality.....everything is a conspiracy....like the economic crisis....

we are not broke..the germans have contrived it to steal our assets.....

Ive had people in greece look me in the eye and swear liverpool's cl comeback was fixed This is the greek mentality. Everything is fixed!

This. And I want to add another thing that is frustrating: anything that concerns olympiacos is treated as the only time in football it occurs.

Example: A fixture is moved, everyone acts like it only happend to olympiacos. Evidence to the contrary is ignored.

[Red Spartan]

What fixture was moved for Olympiakos this year? ... im drawing a blank

[alexocfp]

the cup, but that was moved back. When it was first moved, reading these forums you would think it was the first tine in the history of football it occurred.

[Greekaus]

You shouldn't read the forums as an indicator of what everyone believes in the Greek football World. Not all is black and White and not all 6 or 7 posters in these forums represent everyone else of any team affiliation.

Most of us here recycle the same boring 5 things and try the onemanupship game way too much and lose focus of the big picture.

Its like, how many OLY posters have convinced PAO ones to change their preconceived opinions about something ? Do it in reverse, also. Same results guaranteed. Its why every single thread about any topic regarding the SL will turn somehow into a kazoura. Even if its not intended that way, it will turn into one. Suspicion and ego together is a fatal combination.

Greek football CLUB fans are some of the worse in the Western World. Strange how they rally together and support so honorably the NT when they travel. They are wonderful fans there.

Personally, I gave two shits whether some obsure Greek Cup game might of been initially postponed. Of all the crap the SL has suffered with the stymena , this is a focal point for someone ? Everything gets swept under the carpet anyway and the right belongs to the might. Investigations" tis poutsas " and we have the Sherlock Holmes resident posters here at gs.com trying to decode the famous Kassetes. I smell ,fat ,bearded ,rich guys everywhere with their hand in the cookie jar. Katharos kaneis.

[Manolara_AEKara]

read thryleon post......thats why...

and please get off this high moral stand...."decent non-olympiakos people"

as if morality is determined by which team you support...

its the greek mentality.....everything is a conspiracy....like the economic crisis....

we are not broke..the germans have contrived it to steal our assets.....


we need as a culture to get out of this balkan/ottoman attitude...

the more i hear the more i see us as another fyrom.Serbia. Albania..

High Moral Stand? So you believe non-olympiakos fans can't be decent or you wanted to answer as to why the 'hooligan' non-olympiakos fans are anti-olympiakos?

Why can't you ever answer a simple question without turning it into something else? Nit pick at everything. I could write a 50 page report and have one line regarding olympiakos and you would ask questions just about that line... fuggetaboutit.

[Greekaus]

Nit pick at everything. I could write a 50 page report and have one line regarding olympiakos and you would ask questions just about that line... fuggetaboutit.

Yep, that's what some of them do. Opios ehei tyn myga, mygiazete.

[Thryleon]

High Moral Stand? So you believe non-olympiakos fans can't be decent or you wanted to answer as to why the 'hooligan' non-olympiakos fans are anti-olympiakos?

Why can't you ever answer a simple question without turning it into something else? Nit pick at everything. I could write a 50 page report and have one line regarding olympiakos and you would ask questions just about that line... fuggetaboutit.

My belief is that people are so clouded by the conspiracy theories, and boxa vroma side of things, that they will look and find any little bit of evidence to lend weight to the fact that the world is fixed in Olympiakos favour. You will be surprised how easy it is to just shrug off the peripheral crap, and you discover that the top Greek teams actually drop enough points on the way to any title for it to just be a legitimate result come the end of the season.

Did you know, Asteras Tripolis are the only side to put two past us and win the game this season?

Did you know, that Ofi came back from two nil down to draw us 2-2 in Karaiskaki no less, and with players that we have sent there playing? Aris Soiledis was one, and Mantzios was the protagonist.

Nup. Its easier to point at our last game and see that we were down 2-0 prior to us scoring 7 goals, and stating that they were paid off to roll over, than it is to accept that we may just be good enough to put 7 past that mob, and the trouble is, if you dig you would probably find some bullshit video which highlights how easy they made it, rather than how much we stepped up and actually started finishing our chances. I think in any premiership campaign you could find some questionable stuff that lended weight to the premiers getting favourable treatment if you pushed hard enough, and in Greece where the propaganda machine worked overtime, you can definately find it.

So back on track, call the league fixed, call it stupidly adjudicated, call it whatever you like, are we really still going to bang on about how this is the biggest issue with Greek football?

FWIW, you guys are still stuck in 1996-1997, and have not noticed that Greek football has actually progressed to a much better standard overall, where even the refs are better than they once were (yet are still shithouse), yet the fans are the same animals that they used to be.

As for the high moral stands, some of us have earned that standing, as you don't hear us crying about titles that we missed out on and can actually place the finger exactly where we went wrong those seasons, and why we didnt win them.

This post has been edited by Thryleon: Mar 28 2012, 12:16 AM

[Asteras]

My belief is that people are so clouded by the conspiracy theories,

Did you know, Asteras Tripolis are the only side to put two past us and win the game this season?

i am not talking about conspiracy theories i am talking about facts and things we need to do to improve the greek league.and what we need to do is improve the behaviour of people like marinakis and other paragondes and the media and the way the madia is being used.
im going to keep repeating myself because no one wants to comment on the issues that i have brought up,which have to do with behind the scenes malakies.
which president can you name me in the after match press conference has told an opposing player we f..ked you?is that proper behaviour and does it promote good will among opposing teams?
when vyntra won that penalty against aris what happened to the ref of that match and what did marinakis say afterwards,"eglima kata tis elladas corrupt league",your own president said the league was corrupt is that a conspiracy theory?
was it a coincidence the schedule was changed so levadiakos and paok didnt have to play pao coming off mid week games?who benefits from the schedule change certainly not pao.

why dont you tel us what happened in the aftermarth of the asteras 2-0 defeat,your keeper gave up 2 goals and cost you the match yet the ref copped a bashing in the media,theodoridis was brought out of mothballs and an orchestrated attack against the refs in general started ,making it nearlly impossible for future refs,who blew up that refs fourno?

when we were +5 all the conspiracy theories were coming from olympiakos,the refs were giving pao penalties ,leto was diving ,pilavios fixed the league for pao to win blah blah blah.
your team on the pitch might well have deserced to win the league but im talking about the pousties that go on behind the scenes,but no one wants to comment on the above incidents that happened,i must of being dreaming them ,everything is fine and dandy in the greek league.

[MIA ZOI]

FWIW, you guys are still stuck in 1996-1997, and have not noticed that Greek football has actually progressed to a much better standard overall, where even the refs are better than they once were (yet are still shithouse), yet the fans are the same animals that they used to be.

I hate to nitpick certain points out of long posts, so accept my apology in advance.

But I cannot agree the standard is much better than 15 years ago. No way. It's been in terminal decline since the early 2000s - on the field and off.

[RED SHERIFF]

High Moral Stand? So you believe non-olympiakos fans can't be decent or you wanted to answer as to why the 'hooligan' non-olympiakos fans are anti-olympiakos?

Why can't you ever answer a simple question without turning it into something else? Nit pick at everything. I could write a 50 page report and have one line regarding olympiakos and you would ask questions just about that line... fuggetaboutit.

not nit picking at all...

but your question deliberately put a "halo" around some "non osfp " fans and that we must consider their opinions more so than the "decent osfp fan"..

there are good people that support osfp and all clubs....because someone goes to church every week and help grannys cross the road and helps in a charity and does not support osfp....does not mean they are always right about all topics..

the greek soccer fan is a strange beast....much like "i must retire at 48 and live off a govt. pension"...or its the govts. fault that i lost on the share market in 1998..even though i have no idea about the share market or how it works?

[alexocfp]

@Asteras

We are in full agreement regarding presidents and vice presidents etc coming out and spouting vlakies.

There should be fines for any president, or club executive going on tv mouthing off, releasing anakinosis etc. Being there is no incentive not to do it, people will continue to do so until the fines begin.

Again, though, it happens all over the world. Every club in the world does it. Mourinho went to the car park to curse out an official recently. Watch a press conference in england and it happens in every one. Everyone is looking for a mental edge, football is more than what happens on the pitch. Using tv for mind games is a part of life.

Why would it be different in greece? Especially when you can slander and lie without punishment in Greece.

To be fair, marinakis has been lower profile this season.

[gavros7]

@Astera,
nobody wants to comment b/c you're not presenting facts..it's all conspiracies...you conveniently bring up Marinaki for making an ''opadiko'' statement after downing a 5th of Dewars..if you remember correctly when he sobered up he apologized for his behavior

now can you tell me which temp president admitted he called a ref TWICE during a matchday (once before it started and once at halftime), which president stated that he does great ''mpougades'' and whose president's personal bodyguard beat up Vassara!?

you vazeloi of ALL people should not be bringing up the PAST!! den sas sumferei leme...kanei TZIZ!!!

This post has been edited by gavros7: Mar 28 2012, 12:17 PM

[alexocfp]

just for some sense of perspective, from a manchester city executive. In other words no different than greece.

Viera: Man United get home help from referees
MANCHESTER— Reuters

Published Wednesday, Mar. 28, 2012 2:10PM EDT
Last updated Wednesday, Mar. 28, 2012 3:46PM EDT

Manchester United benefit from favourable refereeing decisions at home, according to Manchester City executive Patrick Vieira.

“When United play at home they get some advantage that other teams don’t get,” the former Arsenal midfielder told BBC Sport at the Soccerex conference in Manchester on Wednesday.

“I think when you go to United, Madrid, Barcelona, or Milan, when the referees referee these kind of games, it’s always difficult to go against these kind of teams. This is the way it is.”

[iltibas]

Ενώ αναλωνόμαστε σε εκατέρωθεν φιλοφρονήσεις, με κύριο αποδέκτη τον Πατροκτόνο γαύρο-7 ο οποίος εμμένει στα Πατροπαράδοτα επιχειρήματα, ο Λαζάρ σέ συνέντευξη στο Κόντρα είπε και τα εξής:

- Την πορεία του ΠΑΟΚ στα πλέι οφ πώς τι βλέπεις; θα πετύχει τον στόχο της πρωτιάς;

"Ο ΠΑΟΚ είναι μια μεγάλη ομάδα και στοχεύουμε στην πρωτιά, θέλω να παίξω στα προκριματικά του Τσάμπιονς Λιγκ".

-Σε αυτό θα παίξει τον ρόλο του και το γεγονός ότι οι Παναθηναϊκός και ΑΕΚ αντιμετωπίζουν σοβαρά προβλήματα;

"Ολες οι ευρωπαϊκές ομάδες έχουν προβλήματα και ειδικότερα οι ελληνικές λόγω της έντονης οικονομικής κρίσης. Ομως αν εμείς είχαμε μια πιο κανονική (σ.σ.: εννοούσε όχι διοίκηση Πρωτοδικείου, αλλά διοικητικό σχήμα με μεγαλοεπενδυτή) διοίκηση, θα ήμασταν το πρώτο φαβορί για τον τίτλο".

Για όλα αυτά βλέπω τρείς εξηγήσεις:

1) Δέν λέει αυτά που σκέφτεται,
2) Πιστεύει οτι στην Ελλάδα τις νίκες δεν τις κερδίζουν οι παίχτες, τις διανέμουν οι διαιτητές, και ότι με κανονική διοίκηση θα ο ΠΑΟΚ θα έπαιζε τις άλλες ομάδες, στο διαιτητικό πεδίο, τουλάχιστον στα ίσα.
3) Πιστεύει οτι παίχτες κερδίζουν τα μάτς και οτι με κανονική διοίκηση ο ΠΑΟΚ θα είχε καλύτερη ομάδα.

Οσοι νομίζουν οτι ο φουκαράς εννοούσε το 3) και είναι καθώς πρέπει και ηθικοί ποδοσφαιρόφιλοι, παρακαλούνται να επικοινωνήσουν το συντομώτερο με τον Λαζάρ και να τον πληροφορήσουν οτι πλανάται πλάνην οικτρά.

[Red legacy]

High Moral Stand? So you believe non-olympiakos fans can't be decent or you wanted to answer as to why the 'hooligan' non-olympiakos fans are anti-olympiakos?

Why can't you ever answer a simple question without turning it into something else? Nit pick at everything. I could write a 50 page report and have one line regarding olympiakos and you would ask questions just about that line... fuggetaboutit.

Why can't you ever make a post without whining and complaining about something?

No one said non-oly fans can't be decent. We were answering why anti-oly fans are anti-oly/non-oly...... Dear god, do you ever stop whining? Not everything has to be a conspiracy and not everyone has to agree with your conspiracy theories.......or the fact that every non oly fan believes in conspiracy....

You are going to sit there and complain about nit picking when you do it yourself man....give it a rest. Rebut his argument, explain yourself, don't do the normal "Greek" thing and assume the world is against you.