Greek Superleague Issues & Concerns, The State of the Greek Superleague Options

[Ziaka]

The only reason the playoffs are still around is because of Forthnet/NOVA who demand it as part of the collective TV agreement with Superleague.

If you really want to make the playoffs interesting and worthwhile, include the teams that finished 1-6 during the regular season and let the results of the playoffs determine the champion and European spots. Otherwise just scrap the whole playoffs idea.

[alexocfp]

They playoffs are nonsense and should be eliminated as soon as contractually possible. The final table is all you need.

European spots should just use the league table (if you cant get a uefa license, then you skip that club)

[Thryleon]

You are right. No final position can indicate anything in regards to how a SL team will perform in Europe. Greek teams have tanked pretty much every single Season bar a few exceptions in any European Competitions for 50 years now. Basically we are crap. Now that the European football is so watered down with additional Nations participating and this goofy set-up of the Europa Cup , just leads us to believe that our teams are doing better, when clearly they are not.

Playoff system is stupid, no interest from fans when you look at the attendances and after last years stymena shit all over the place , the notion that teams are " playing it fair is a joke.

League is run by goons.

@ Thryleon, you are trying real hard to make a case for OLY's superiority. I cant imagine any person with his head screwed up right thinks that player for player , OLY did not have the best squads for the majority of the years since Kokkalis gained power. That isn't the issue at all here. So what, if let's say the Paranga or whatever may have influenced 1 or 2 championships out of all the many you have won. This changes what for AEK and PAO the last few years where they are struggling from within ?

League in general is in a shit state, nobody believes in it and the wrong people are running the majority of the teams. No playoff system can help anyone bar maybe someone like Atromitos that can make some extra money from it and even if they do , the idea that they will invest that money wisely to add quality into their team to do well in Europe next Season, is not even a thought for them.

The final position of the league is what the players earned over 30 matches. It's not meant to determine who is more worthy to compete in europe. That is a next season proposition and the landscape of any team will change based on what happens in the off season, so what is right now may not be the same in 4 months time further deligitimising any proposed playoffs.

Im actually not making a case for Olympiakos superiority (quoting you). I actually think that the differences between us and the rest have not been that large in any given year, and trying to alter the mindset of the average Greek fan like our friend Asteras, who seemed to take major exception to everything under the sun except for PAO and its ineptitude. Same with AEK, who seem to pin AEK's latest downfall squarely on Olympiakos for getting a win through the Walner scenario.

Do you get me now? Im not about superiority. Far from it. I want our rivals to actually want to compete. All the bad press about money, its bad, but it isnt all that bad, and Im sure that PAO could throw a lineup out there with almost any 11 and just for being PAO most teams would struggle to contain them. Your youth team could probably compete in the Superleague because the standard of football is actually not that good, but its as good as it ever has been by Greek standards, and across the board (all teams) the bottom is probably better than it ever has been whilst the top has gone back to the field through a lack of competancy. I personally think the league suffers from what I have bolded in your post, rather than anything else, and even this is a perception of a problem rather than an actual problem. Why do you ask? We actually have teams out there that are getting better. Yes it may only be the europa league, but they are on the improve. Namely Aris, but the others are getting there also and show it whenever they compete. Panionios were another garnering some positive results recently on the european stage.

[iltibas]

The final position of the league is what the players earned over 30 matches. It's not meant to determine who is more worthy to compete in europe. That is a next season proposition and the landscape of any team will change based on what happens in the off season, so what is right now may not be the same in 4 months time further deligitimising any proposed playoffs.

This sounds good but is it necessarily true?

E.g., early in this year's championship, a player of Levadiakos informed us (after a match against OSFP) that Levadiakos was managing its resources and for this purpose had fielded a weaker team. Let us engage in a hypothetical:

If OSFP were to end 1 point ahead of PAO would the final position be what the players earned and not, conceivably, what was mostly earned and in part handed to them by another club's strategy?

The second part on the statement states that the relative strength of the clubs at the end of a season will not be the same at the beginning of the next. True of course but would even older data, as a rule, correlate better with performance in Europe?


We have at our disposal imperfect tools and we can easily demonstrate the weaknesses of any one of them. The question is simply which one is better and why. A larger question would be what we wish to achieve and which tool is the better predictor for that.

[Greekaus]

Another Great weekend of SL football.

Olympiakos just turned up, didn't seem too bothered to play ,so they lost to their buddy team Kerkyra at home who needed the points.

AEK and PAOK bent over, PAO won an absolute nothing game and Aris fans belted the female assistant ref with a bottle so their home game vs Asteras was officially stopped by the ref.
Battle for the playoffs now, wide open. Cant wait to watch teams be involved in something they have no interest in doing.

Yes, let's all get together now here in this thread and come up with some great ideas on how to fix Greek football.

[Aphrodite's ...]

Watch where you step Greekaus...

Gayros fans get very sensitive about Kerkyra, their B team.

[nasl]

how much is the tv contract for the super league worth.

like how much does each team get from it per season ?

[alexocfp]

Clubs letting down this time of the season is not uncommon in any league in any sport. It does not mean anything nefarious took place with any of the clubs today.

The assistant getting hit is the main cause of concern for sure

[Manolara_AEKara]

It's funny how a small small minority of Aris fans decided to cause anarchy and ruin a professional match for the club.
An Aris member posted that maybe it was to cause a distraction from the clubs actual problems.

So Pao f'd, Aek f'd, Paok f'd, Aris f'd. Kavala + Volou f'd last season. Atromitos=Mitroglou's goals who is only on loan.

What a wildly interesting set of circumstances, all happening at the same time... can't wait for an ''amazing'' next season of Olympiakos winning the title in Septembur.

[RED SHERIFF]

can you explain.....how all this is pointed at osfp??

how is the tzigger issues etc and osfp issue... pao fans blame tzigger for their situation...paok have been in the same boat for 15 years...at least....aris have been relegated twice in recent history...somehow you tie in kavala and volos..

remember aris fans caused a 9 match ban by doing malakies several years ago....when the club was relegated...

[Manolara_AEKara]

Can you explain how...... my post in any way is pointed at osfp?

[Aphrodite's ...]

Pff forget it, Oly are so defensive about anyone who doesn't hail their mighty team and it's 'clean' practices.

An opinion has to be fiercely pro-Olympiakos or else their fans think it's anti-Olympiakos. There is no such thing as neutral to them.

This post has been edited by Aphrodite's Child: Apr 9 2012, 07:14 AM

[Greekaus]

What I was trying to suggest is that Greek teams bar no exception have attitude issues whenever there is nothing much to play for and NO , its not the same in the English leagues. If OLY gave 100 % effort and lost to Kerkyra at home then you can compare that to perhaps say , Manchester United lost home to Blackburn , which has happened in the past. Difference there is that United players/teams always play to win regardless of circumstances. Greek teams/ players/coaches/officials and even fans , do not have that professional " work ethic " or respect for what they do.
Fans feel cheated many times and they do not need any additional motivations to act like social defects and cause havoc.

After last years allround match fixing scandals and how everything got swept under the carpet, some here still think that its just a figment of the NON-OLY fans/ poster's imagination.

Self destruction from within ( all the teams who have screwy owners )poor product on the field and dishonour all over the place is what defines the SL now. Can't be and won't be fixed unless all the Protagonists , fuck off.

[londrezos]

It's funny how a small small minority of Aris fans decided to cause anarchy and ruin a professional match for the club.
An Aris member posted that maybe it was to cause a distraction from the clubs actual problems.

So Pao f'd, Aek f'd, Paok f'd, Aris f'd. Kavala + Volou f'd last season. Atromitos=Mitroglou's goals who is only on loan.

What a wildly interesting set of circumstances, all happening at the same time... can't wait for an ''amazing'' next season of Olympiakos winning the title in Septembur.

Yeah its gonna be amazing!!!

Go AEK!!! Go AEK!!!!! The Greek league is amazing and has no problems. This can be seen with our clubs' amazing victories over Tottenham , Arsenal (woaahhhh!!) , Sturm Graz, and other such teams!! That means that Greek league is healthy!!!

Let's just pretend everything is ok!!!! And then when Olympiakos wins the league with their +2 head-start over Panathinaikos (gotta love EPO), we can congratulate them on a fine achievement!!!!

GOD IM SO EXCITED ABOUT NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!

[londrezos]

Wait a sec, I retract those statements wholeheartedly because AEK is financially bankrupt and I should worry about my own teams issues of paying players, before I can have ANY OPINION WHATSOEVER on the issues of Greek football.

I therefore admit that I as an AEK fan am no longer allowed to say anything about Greek football until we solve our issues as a club.

Fuck off

[alexocfp]

Given the rules, aris should be deducted 3 points this season and 2 points next season because the match was abandoned due to crowd trouble.

The hearing is tomorrow.

[Aphrodite's ...]

Debt spiral suffocates Spanish football

Football clubs in the Spanish top division are desperate for cash as Madrid looks to be on its way to becoming the next European capital after Athens to seek international financial support.

European football is for many the embodiment of the beautiful game, but off the field it's getting ugly.

Top flight Spanish clubs are struggling with masses of debt, as 90 per cent of all bankrupt teams in Europe are in Spain.

“Presently, the La Liga clubs are either bankrupt or half-bankrupt and this is a terrible result,” Julio Senn, former Real Madrid director general, said. “Clubs have to realize they can only spend as much as they have invested.”

The country’s Sports Minister recently said Spanish clubs may be offered help in the form of debt restructuring. But refereeing the crisis German politicians appear to have kicked that idea into touch, with one MEP calling the move a threat to competition and asking German clubs to speak out.

“I find it unthinkable,” Uli Hoeness, Bayern Munich President, said. “We’re paying (Spain) hundreds of million dollars to help them recover from this situation, and clubs are trying to avoid paying their debts. It can’t go on like this.”

The proposal has since been dropped, but the problem persists with Spanish clubs owing more than €750 million in unpaid taxes. Rayo Vallecano is one club in administration; it’s struggled to pay its player's wages.

“I think the Spanish players were outraged,” Miguel Angel Sanchez Munoz, Rayo’s captain, stressed. “When we talk about a strike it is obvious that Spanish football is going through a really difficult time.”

An inability to pay salaries is something affecting many clubs prompting a players strike last year.

But wages are only part of the problem, with spending to net the world’s greatest talent amounting to €400 million in the top league. And those who lead teams from the boardrooms think something drastic needs to change.

“Now Spanish football and the Spanish economy need investments from abroad,” Fernando Sanz, Malaga’s ex-President, stressed. “It’s not only about football, but also Spain as a whole.”
Off the pitch a similar scenario is being played out. An uncompetitive economy is not yielding many positive results.

And whilst some accuse football clubs of taking their eyes of the ball, many are saying the same about the nation’s leaders.

http://www.rt.com/sport/football/spain-foo...bts-crisis-563/

We aren't the only broke league...

[Amorgos]

What I was trying to suggest is that Greek teams bar no exception have attitude issues whenever there is nothing much to play for and NO , its not the same in the English leagues. If OLY gave 100 % effort and lost to Kerkyra at home then you can compare that to perhaps say , Manchester United lost home to Blackburn , which has happened in the past. Difference there is that United players/teams always play to win regardless of circumstances. Greek teams/ players/coaches/officials and even fans , do not have that professional " work ethic " or respect for what they do.

At the same time Greekaus, we fall into over guessing the scenario too... Has anyone seen the Olympiakos-Kerkyra match? When I logged onto social media that morning in Oz all I read about what how Olympiakos GAVE Kerkyra the 3 points... when I watched the extended highlights its was like 10 classic chances to 1 in favour of Olympiakos... Kekryra had 1 chance and scored... My point is, we tend to excaudate anything that happens in Greece too.

The Aris incident was just sad all together... to throw a bottle at a linesman/woman and injure them is just filth.

[RED SHERIFF]

i watched the whole osfp-kerkyra game..

we were not "switched on" and smooth at times..but could have won the game 4-1.... we have often had these types of games this year..

Ioannou's strike was very good...

@ AC,Londrezos..

we all acknowledge issues with greek football and greek society....but I seriously reckon the volume of activity on this thread would have been minimal if PAO and AEK had sugar daddies...

[Greekaus]

we all acknowledge issues with greek football and greek society....but I seriously reckon the volume of activity on this thread would have been minimal if PAO and AEK had sugar daddies...

Well that's obvious isn't it ? Imagine if all of the three most popular teams in Greece had a Kokkalis-Marinakis type owner ? Battle to who can out corrupt each other and also imagine the hooligan issue in Greece and how worse off it would be. At least 1 thing going for the 3 "sugar daddy " hypthetical scenario is that each one then would be forced to outdo each other and might actually buy some real decent players for a change instead of all this crap Bosman signings.


The SL is on the road to nowhere. Doesn't matter who is broke, who has money any more.