Kim Jong-Il Dead Options

[Manolara_AEKara]

Keep believing N.Korea is communist. An excerpt from the easiest of sources, Wikipedia:

Many outside organizations describe North Korea as a totalitarian Stalinist dictatorship

You keep believing you live in a capitalist democracy because FOX told you so, k chief.
Irish Tourist Denied Entry to USA Over Twitter Jokes!

[Red Spartan]

I adressed that in the second paragraph of my initial post that you quoted from 2 months ago.

Of course no communist state exists, or has ever existed, as defined by the manifesto in its 'pure' form... it is always doomed to corrupt into a 'N.Korea' type state or something similar.

Keep fighting the good fight sir, and good luck to you

[iltibas]

There is a body of thought that it is stunning in its simplicity and fecundity. It relies on a single axiom (everything is either black or white) and on two types of admirably sentimental proofs:

(I like it): It is provably not black, hence it is white;
(I do not like it): It is provably not white, hence it is black.

Interestingly enough, this wonderfully white (or is it black?) theory is met by its black (unless it is white) dual (young versus not young) theory that has produced the following two sentimental calculi concerning the black-versus-white theory practitioners:

(young): Ruled by hormonal imbalances; object of jealousy.
(not so young): Deprived of the hormonal imbalances but still subject to their secondary effects; object of sympathy.

[CHE21QNZ]

Good posts Manolara , RS you are doing a great job of dodging EVERY single post that Manolara has made and backed with valid arguments, you are adding nothing to the conversation. And Iltibas we're not talking about people we are talking about zebra's so your logic is flawed.

"MY bad... N.Korea isnt a 'communist state' anymore, and is most likely a great place to live.... you are correct"

Some reasons for why this sentence is COMPLETELY unrelated and serves no purpose:

1. In an objective big boy conversation there is no good or bad , not only does it NOT AT ALL relate to the conversation but it has nothing to do with the wrong classification of communism or socialism for that matter. It's the equivalent of saying Apples aren't Oranges because Apples aren't good.

2. "Communist State" is a contradiction ........ Communism doesn't rely on a single power wielding state or leader.



The actual issue at hand is the wrong classification of Socialism and Communism and why this wrong classification serves as a form of propaganda.

Let's look at the N.Korean :

- Totalitarian government where ALL opposition is dismantled.

- Power in the hands of one individual and in the event of his death the power is switched to his son, something that is explained through the "magical" divine powers of that family. (Characteristics of a Monarchy)


- An entire economy that focuses all of it's man power and industrial power towards one objective; it's army. The individual serves no purpose other then work to feed this machine , this army. How is this justified ? EXTREME NATIONALISM (something that conflicts with far left ideologies)


NOW any logical person can see that ^^^^^^^^ is much more in tune with Far Right Ideologies , specifically Fascism , and much less to leftist ideologies ESPECIALLY communism.

Why does all this wrong classification serve as a good form of propaganda for the far Right both within N.Korea and outside of N.Korea? Simple. The North Korean Leaders describe their system as a system that is aimed at helping ALL people in that society. Promotes equality, prosperity, and a system for the common man, something that fanatically get's the people on their side. When in reality everyone is working to death and starving to fuel the army that protects the power of their Monarch. All the while that all mighty Monarch sits back and sips Whiskey while watching Disney Channel movies.

How does this form of propaganda help far right systems outside of N.Korea? Simple. Any time there is even a shroud of sympathy towards the left or of policies that show more left leaning ideologies , it is labelled as Communism and for anyone who doesn't know any better this model is falsely associated with N.Korea or the USSR. Anytime someone wants better benefits at work, a better working environment, equal laws and representation for the lower classes, or universal health care, the response is "WHAT ARE YOU A COMMIE?!? WOULD YOU LIKE TO LIVE IN NORTH KOREA INSTEAD!?!?" It's a form of alienation. Just look at all the Stalin, Mao, Hammer and Sickle , red flag, propaganda posters launched against Obama during his campaign just because he vowed to invest in the American system (all this regardless of what he has ACTUALLY done). This is how the McCarthy era had the influence it did.

This post has been edited by Red Spartan: Mar 2 2012, 03:52 PM

[Red Spartan]

North Korea was founded as a communist state, and only recently (2009) officially rejected its founding ideology. (Wiki)

I adressed this in my initial post, and its sad that i have to say it again.

Communism is doomed to corrupt into N.Korea type states over time, and has never been implemented and maintained anywhere in the world in its 'pure' form.

History has proven this beyond a doubt.... N.Korea is just one example of many.

I agree that it is no longer communist (as defined by the manifesto...no state ever was), but over time has turned into what it is today..... Not much different to the soviet union under stalin imo....

The only communist party i know of that strictly adheres to the marxist-lenin ideologies unwaveringly is the greek KKE.

[iltibas]

....The only communist party i know of that strictly adheres to the marxist-lenin ideologies unwaveringly is the greek KKE.

You may mean it as a disparagement but the party would consider it a great compliment and a good part of the out-of-KKE hard left would gladly sue you for misleading advertising.

[CHE21QNZ]

I'm not just speaking of the classification of Communism, I'm speaking of the Left in general.......

[soccerfan19]

@Che

Iltibas stated that it is incredibly simple to claim that something is either black or white; the implication is that the truth is not simple (it can be zebra, perhaps).

He then made a joke about simpletons: pity the man who can't get it on, and be jealous of the one who can. Although, I feel his joke and his first comment might be a little more nuanced than I've supposed.

This post has been edited by soccerfan19: Mar 3 2012, 12:09 AM

[Manolara_AEKara]

North Korea was founded as a communist state, and only recently (2009) officially rejected its founding ideology. (Wiki)

I adressed this in my initial post, and its sad that i have to say it again.

Communism is doomed to corrupt into N.Korea type states over time, and has never been implemented and maintained anywhere in the world in its 'pure' form.

History has proven this beyond a doubt.... N.Korea is just one example of many.

I agree that it is no longer communist (as defined by the manifesto...no state ever was), but over time has turned into what it is today..... Not much different to the soviet union under stalin imo....

The only communist party i know of that strictly adheres to the marxist-lenin ideologies unwaveringly is the greek KKE.

That's all we were saying...

[Red Spartan]

If i didnt communicate my thoughts clearly in my initial post, my apologies.... a misunderstanding