Proposed Stadium Information, All info regarding PAO's new home Options

[michalis]

^^^
I can summarise this junk posters comments in one sentence:

"I am a Neo-Nazi (look at his avatar) and prefer small crowds of Greek hooligans watching soccer in broken down old stadiums rather than new 'modern' stadiums." Grow up boy.

The stadium situation in the Greek Super League is for the most part a disgrace. Look at what happened recently with AEK almost forfieting a Europa play off because they have nowhere to play! Overall, the stadiums are shit, old and rotting. I don't care about the so-called 'hardcore' fans. The true fans will come to the games in a new or old stadium. Good riddance to anybody who does not like it. Watch a game like Everton vs Man U and tell me the fans at the game are like watching a movie...

OAKA is not a home for PAO. Until Pana gets their own new stadium we will always be second class citizens. I say this as a PAO fan. I want the club to get a new stadium more than another title. I am sure most fans would agree.

Reason for edit: Why quote? We can read the post right above you...

[cyberfish]

+1
brave first post. Now you've done it Mihali - get your umbrella ready

I agree with just about everything you said, except I don't mind OAKA. I've been there when it's packed to capacity and the place rocks. We just need to find ways to pack the stadium more often than three-four times per year. I think the Greek state should sale it to PAO for a good price and should allow shops to be built all around it so it's profitable year round. It would save the taxpayers a boatload of money too.

BTW. welcome

This post has been edited by cyberfish: Sep 12 2010, 11:18 PM

[Asteras]

i hate oaka.i prefer leoforos anytime.
we need our own stadium,with no running track,with the fans right on top of the action,a home that puts fear in the opposition.
if these guys eventually build a stadium, it should be 50.000 seater, do it properly.

just a question to anyone,i know engineers had a look at leoforos, i think with a view to extending it, and they said i think that it couldnt be done.
if we have anyone with knowledge on these matters ,my question is could leoforos be renewed and extended and brought to life?
just curious.

[RED SHERIFF]

asteras..

they say leforos cant be done...so votanikos is the next "new" option...lets hope (fingers crossed) they can cut through the red tape and get it done even if its 40-42k..

i really dont think leforo(or in the aek forums i read their fans want more games at rizoupoli) ..is the answer..

the problem with leoforo and rizoupoli..for big clubs like aek and pao..is that over the season you are lucky to average 9-10k.

you do that for several years on end..and the masses get used not going to the stadium...do it for ten years..you risk losing the crowds for ever..going to watch football live is a habit...must be accessible..
as much as some dont like oaka...its easy to get to..a 5 star uefa venue..gives you a chance to have the odd massive crowds for derbies,important games...and the most important thing..always gives you hope of attracting more fans..

This post has been edited by RED SHERIFF: Sep 13 2010, 01:30 AM

[Asteras]

^^ Your right.

[xenofon]

I am not an engineer, but I've visited Leoforos several times, the most recent being just a couple of months ago.

There is no way a bigger stadium can be built there. It's smack bang in the middle of one of Athens' busiest avenues, there is little or no room for parking, it's very tight as it is with the current small stadium. They would need to buy 2 surrounding blocks to build a new bigger stadium.

Shame, because it's so close to the metro and is the spiritual home of the club.

Also visited Karaiskaki.....that is a fantastic stadium (if a bit small capacity wise), great surrounds, commercial area/shops, direct metro access, etc, etc.....that is what PAO needs.

[cyberfish]

The talk about expanding Leoforos is just talk. The only way would be to demolish the church and the school next to it. Good luck with that, especially since we don't own neither one. We can put that to rest so fans don't get confused.

About stands closer to the pitch, no one gets intimidated any more. This was back in the sixties when there was a real fear of some idiot getting in and physically assaulting the players or refs. "Fans intimidating opponents" is another urban myth, maintained to stroke, well, the fans. Providing a psychological boost to the home team is a fact and 70k fans with a track can be just as effective as 40k without one. It might be better for "watchabillity to be close to the pitch, but I always enjoyed the view from the OAKA stands.

Building our own stadium from scratch is ideal of course because it can be built to our specs, with VIP boxes and with around to provide income year-round (a main reason they want to built it in the middle of Athens). But if we can't, OAKA is a great stadium as long as we don't pay through the roof for using it. The only issue with it is that it looks empty 80% of the time and instead of downsizing our shop we should try to find ways to pack it in more often.

This post has been edited by cyberfish: Sep 13 2010, 06:39 AM

[Reaper the Pure]

About stands closer to the pitch, no one gets intimidated any more. This was back in the sixties when there was a real fear of some idiot getting in and physically assaulting the players or refs. "Fans intimidating opponents" is another urban myth, maintained to stroke, well, the fans. Providing a psychological boost to the home team is a fact and 70k fans with a track can be just as effective as 40k without one. It might be better for "watchabillity to be close to the pitch, but I always enjoyed the view from the OAKA stands.

I disagree 100% with this statement. Fans close to the pitch not only affects the opponents and helps them get nervous/ make mistakes, the fans usually have a big influence on the referee and how many cards/fouls he gives. The difference between AEK's last game at the Rizoupoli and their previous games at the OAKA is night and day as anyone who saw will admit. This is why both the players and fans have asked for games to be played there from now on because of the atmosphere.
This is a basic of football.

[accor6]

^^I am with you.

Cyber have you forgotten Pao's record in Leofotos? Oaka except from a very few exceptions is a TERRIBLE court to claim home court advantage.

[cyberfish]

I knew you guys would disagree. I grew up going to Leoforos. Back then intimidation factor was a real issue. Now it means nothing. Psychological lift for the home team, and that lonely feeling for the visitors happens for sure. But the distance from the pitch has nothing to do with it. Look at some of the wins Pao pulled in Karaiskaki where the pitch is closer. The OAKA was hell last year and Olympiakos still won our game. No one was scared and it wasn't the track around the pitch.

[Asteras]

im sure if you ask any player, they would answer they prefer playing on a ground without a running track.

[accor6]

Oaka can only be hell SOMETIMES Cyber...Leofors almost always was thus the amazing record Pao has in that stadium

857 ΜΑΤΣ : 674 ΝΙΚΕΣ , 126 ΙΣΟΠΑΛΙΕΣ & 57 ΗΤΤΕΣ

[cyberfish]

Hey, no one would be happier if we could rebuilt leoforos into a modern stadium, and I would be ecstatic if we had a stadium without a track. But I don't think it's such a big deal. I just want to see a Panathinaikos stadium in my lifetime. We've never been so close to one in my lifetime, even though we've been talking about it since the 70's.

Votanikos was so close to being built, but now it seems so far away. If these 130 idiots hadn't sued, we would be looking at the stadium being built as we speak. Unfortunately, that lawsuit managed to delay the project until the Greek economy collapsed. I just don't see any way it can be done unless we can get a huuuuuge loan from a bank (and banks don't have money to loan right now), or we need to get some investors interested (and people would be crazy to invest in anything Greek right now). I doubt our own shareholders have that kind of money to spend (heck, some are trying to get rid of their shares, and some won't even touch free shares).

I am thinking, there is no need to be so dogmatic about what I consider "menial" things. If we can strike a deal to own a stadium like OAKA, would I say "no way, it has a track"? No, I'd be jumping for joy. If they come up with the money tomorrow and start building Votanikos, I'd be ecstatic. I'll fly to Athens every other weekend for the games But if there is another option like ownership of OAKA, or building in the OAKA grounds a new stadium (man, there is a lot of space there to build a couple of football fields) why would we oppose that?

Anyway, I don't think it's useful to paint ourselves into little corners like that. We did it once with "Goudi". Fans wanted nothing to do with "Elaiona", the actual residents of Goudi didn't want a stadium in their little green oasis, and it took almost ten years and the re-branding the Elaionas project as "Votanikos" for us to get moving again.

I would like us to keep our eyes on the big price for once. The price is a modern stadium that's owned by our club. If the only thing that's available is OAKA, and other alternatives are ten years removed, I say OAKA would be awesome.

I hope this clarifies my position a bit so I don't get baptized "votanikos hater" and "track lover"

This post has been edited by cyberfish: Sep 13 2010, 01:37 PM

[michalis]

^^
Fair call. However, I still want to see Pana build a new home. I don't think the Greek government would sell OAKA anyway. They are desperate for cash but surely not THAT desperate are they?

[Reaper the Pure]

OAKA going Green is not an option as far as the Govt is concerned. It is currently a major athletics stadium of prestige in Europe capable of holding all Olympic, World and European athletic Championships and events as well as Football UEFA/FIFA finals and even World Rally special stages and concerts and it will stay that way. It makes money from all these events for the Govt and especially enjoys the rent from PAO who are unlikely to ever build a new stadium and AEK who have as much chance of building a new stadium as Bin Laden does of hosting the oscars. There is more chance of PAO building a new stadium at Votanikos which is extremely low anyway imo then the Govt selling PAO anything in the OAKA.

[Reaper the Pure]

Votanikos About to be Abandonned as an Option.

http://sport24.gr/football/omades/Panathin..._an.566228.html

[PaoPsycho]

good, make it closer to paianea!

[RED SHERIFF]

this could be a disaster

[biganj]

Hey, no one would be happier if we could rebuilt leoforos into a modern stadium, and I would be ecstatic if we had a stadium without a track. But I don't think it's such a big deal. I just want to see a Panathinaikos stadium in my lifetime. We've never been so close to one in my lifetime, even though we've been talking about it since the 70's.

Votanikos was so close to being built, but now it seems so far away. If these 130 idiots hadn't sued, we would be looking at the stadium being built as we speak. Unfortunately, that lawsuit managed to delay the project until the Greek economy collapsed. I just don't see any way it can be done unless we can get a huuuuuge loan from a bank (and banks don't have money to loan right now), or we need to get some investors interested (and people would be crazy to invest in anything Greek right now). I doubt our own shareholders have that kind of money to spend (heck, some are trying to get rid of their shares, and some won't even touch free shares).

I am thinking, there is no need to be so dogmatic about what I consider "menial" things. If we can strike a deal to own a stadium like OAKA, would I say "no way, it has a track"? No, I'd be jumping for joy. If they come up with the money tomorrow and start building Votanikos, I'd be ecstatic. I'll fly to Athens every other weekend for the games But if there is another option like ownership of OAKA, or building in the OAKA grounds a new stadium (man, there is a lot of space there to build a couple of football fields) why would we oppose that?

Anyway, I don't think it's useful to paint ourselves into little corners like that. We did it once with "Goudi". Fans wanted nothing to do with "Elaiona", the actual residents of Goudi didn't want a stadium in their little green oasis, and it took almost ten years and the re-branding the Elaionas project as "Votanikos" for us to get moving again.

I would like us to keep our eyes on the big price for once. The price is a modern stadium that's owned by our club. If the only thing that's available is OAKA, and other alternatives are ten years removed, I say OAKA would be awesome.

I hope this clarifies my position a bit so I don't get baptized "votanikos hater" and "track lover"

There is no room there to build a new UEFA Category 3 or 4 stadium, you need secured parking lots, tv studios, etc....
Rebuilding Leoforos will never happen.
Lets move on

[cyberfish]

I agree (and have written before) that Leoforos can't be re-built. I think I have said that in an earlier post (mentioning that we'd have to take out a church and a high school to make room.

Take a look at the OAKA stadium satellite photo. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...mp;t=h&z=16

see the two fields to the north of Spyros Louis stadium? I think that's a prime spot to build a proper stadium. Plenty of space. Perfect location for sporting events, infrastructure in place, ample parking, two metro stations, and "The Mall" right next door since our stadium will have shops and it's important that there is reason for shoppers to be around. Shops and shoppers 360 days per year is one of the main reasons Votanikos is an awesome spot. Peania would be a nice place for a stadium (this is 2010 and everyone has a car - no need to build stadiums in "walking distance" from habitable areas), but would be a disaster for renting shops.